The Glens of Barr on the Family Tree DNA Project have been tentatively identified and are listed under the results page as:
YDNA Cluster Scottish Lowlands, R-U106 > L48 Haplogroup, Genetic Homeland Possibly: Renfrew, Scotland - Could be Ancient Glen Family of Barr
This Cluster is being researched to try to confirm that the members are indeed decedents of the Glen Family of Barr with origins in Renfrewshire. This cluster is one of the largest identified to date with 16 members clustering into this group. They have close to distant matches suggesting the founding patriarch of this family is from the 1200-1400s and has many decedents.
Earliest Confirmed Origins of The Glen Family of Barr, Renfrewshire
The Glens of Barr rose to prominence in the 1400s in the shire of Renfrew and held the lands of Barr and built Barr castle hence they are referred to as the Glens of Barr. Genealogist Thomas Glenn in his paper Genealogical Notes of the family Glen or Glenn claimed an earlier origin in the 1200s naming Richard Glen as the progenitor of the Glens of Barr but that is likely incorrect and will be discussed in greater detail below (Glenn, 1912).
The earliest known recorded ancestor is Allanus Glen named as an Armiger, and witness to the donation of fishing rights upon the river Clyde in the area known as Crockat-shot, to the Monks of Paisley in 1452 by Robert Lord Lyll (Crawfurd & Robertson, 1818). The historic armorial bearing of the Glens of Barr is described as a blazon argent a fess gules, between three martlets and is represented in the illustration above (Crawfurd & Robertson, 1818).
In 1506 James Glen is granted a charter for the lands of Barr, Bridge-End and Lyntchels establishing the Glens of Barr as land gentry in Renfrewshire (Crawfurd & Robertson, 1818).
YDNA Connecting the Cluster to the Glens of Barr
The People of Medieval Scotland places Richard Glen and his lands in the Glen of Traquair, Peeblesshire rather than Barr, Renfrewshire as Thomas Glenn does (People of Medieval Scotland, 2012c). The scholars at People of Medieval Scotland base this on the topographical surname Richard of Glen hence they attached him to the Glen of Traquair, Peeblesshire.
See maps showing location of the Glen of Traquair:
Alexander Fraser in his work The Frasers of Philorth concluded that Richard of Glen was a Glen of Traquair, Peeblesshire and that he was likely related to Duncan and Sara of Glen whose lands are located at the Glen of Traquair (Fraser, 1879).
Sarah, who was the wife of Duncan of the Glen, has remained a widow for four years in 1296, she petitions for her inheritance which is seized by the hand of Earl Patrick, by reason of the war (People of Medieval Scotland, 2012d).
Barr castle does indeed appear to have been built in two phases but those are in 1500s and 1600s (Canmore, 2017). Perhaps Thomas Glenn visited Barr castle and mistook the older walls as being much older than they actually are. It should be noted that James Glen of Barr likely built Barr castle in the 1500s.
Is Richard of Glen or any Glen/Glenn family related to the Norman house of Ness?
In his work Genealogical Notes of the family Glen or Glenn Thomas Glenn names Henry Ness as an ancestor to Richard of Glenn. The author of this paper has been unable to locate the records Thomas Glenn used as citations. Henry Ness is a historical person recorded in several court records (People of Medieval Scotland, 2012e) http://db.poms.ac.uk/record/source/5788/#
Conclusions Regarding Richard of Glen and this YDNA Cluster
In conclusion the author of this paper has found no historic or genetic evidence to support Richard Glen as the progenitor of the Glens of Barr. Rather it is most likely that Richard of Glen is in fact a progenitor of the Glen of Traquair, Peeblesshire.
At this time Allanus Glen is the oldest known progenitor of the Glens of Barr recorded is Allanus Glen named as an Armiger, and witness to the donation of fishing rights upon the river Clyde in the area known as Crockat-shot, to the Monks of Paisley in 1452 by Robert Lord Lyll (Crawfurd & Robertson, 1818). Therefore the Glens of Barr are their own unique lowland Scots family. Hopefully future research will perhaps yield information on earlier Glens in the Renfrew, Scotland.
Notable ancestors in the cluster
Many in the cluster are decedents of John Glen b. 1768 – d. 1832 and Abigail Rogers b. 1770- d. 1842.
Future Goals and Research
This Cluster is being researched to try to confirm that the members are indeed decedents of the Glen Family of Barr with origins in Renfrewshire. This cluster is one of the largest identified to date with 16 members clustering into this group. They have close to distant matches suggesting the founding patriarch of this family is from the 1200-1400s and has many decedents.
Earliest Confirmed Origins of The Glen Family of Barr, Renfrewshire
The Glens of Barr rose to prominence in the 1400s in the shire of Renfrew and held the lands of Barr and built Barr castle hence they are referred to as the Glens of Barr. Genealogist Thomas Glenn in his paper Genealogical Notes of the family Glen or Glenn claimed an earlier origin in the 1200s naming Richard Glen as the progenitor of the Glens of Barr but that is likely incorrect and will be discussed in greater detail below (Glenn, 1912).
In 1506 James Glen is granted a charter for the lands of Barr, Bridge-End and Lyntchels establishing the Glens of Barr as land gentry in Renfrewshire (Crawfurd & Robertson, 1818).
YDNA Connecting the Cluster to the Glens of Barr
Unfortunately none in this cluster has a definitive genealogical paper trail tracing their family back to Renfrew, Scotland. There are some testers with tentative paper trails back to Renfrew but those are still being researched. Furthermore Glens in this cluster do have distant matches to Stewarts that trace their line to Kintyre, Scotland. However Kintyre is still geographically distant from Renfrew but it suggest a possible earlier ancestral connection to south western Scotland before the use of surnames where common c. 1000 AD.
Some limited SNP testing has been done at this point with those in this cluster belonging to Haplogroup L48. Being haplogroup L48 suggest this cluster is Anglo-Saxon or Anglo-Norman in origin. The cluster would benefit from two or more members taking a Big Y DNA test to help better define the origin of the cluster.
Possible Connection to Glens of Balmuto
Thomas Glenn claimed the Glens of Barr where related to the Glens of Balmuto but preliminary YDNA results do not support this. The Glens of Balmuto have been likely identified and are a separate and independent lineage from the Glens of Barr.
It appears Thomas Glenn ties together the Glens of Balmuto with the Glens of Barr based on common surname alone. Now with the benefits of YDNA there appears to be no genetic connection.
Richard Glen Controversy
In the work Genealogical Notes of the family Glen or Glenn the author Thomas Glen states that:
Historical Records Regarding Richard of Glen
It is clear that Richard Glen was a historical person who lived in Scotland, and was a landholder who died circa 1292. His historical existence is based on two court documents.
1) The first granting Richard Fraser custody of his lands in 1292:
Some limited SNP testing has been done at this point with those in this cluster belonging to Haplogroup L48. Being haplogroup L48 suggest this cluster is Anglo-Saxon or Anglo-Norman in origin. The cluster would benefit from two or more members taking a Big Y DNA test to help better define the origin of the cluster.
Possible Connection to Glens of Balmuto
Thomas Glenn claimed the Glens of Barr where related to the Glens of Balmuto but preliminary YDNA results do not support this. The Glens of Balmuto have been likely identified and are a separate and independent lineage from the Glens of Barr.
It appears Thomas Glenn ties together the Glens of Balmuto with the Glens of Barr based on common surname alone. Now with the benefits of YDNA there appears to be no genetic connection.
Richard Glen Controversy
In the work Genealogical Notes of the family Glen or Glenn the author Thomas Glen states that:
- Richard Glen was born c.1250 – died c.1292
- That he is the progenitor of the Glens of Barr
- Originally held the lands of Barr
- Built Barr castle
- Was a descendent of the Norman house of Ness
Historical Records Regarding Richard of Glen
It is clear that Richard Glen was a historical person who lived in Scotland, and was a landholder who died circa 1292. His historical existence is based on two court documents.
1) The first granting Richard Fraser custody of his lands in 1292:
- "Richard Fraser in the year 1292 custody of all the lands and tenements which used to belong to Richard of Glen, recently deceased to be held until the coming of age of the legitimate heirs of Richard of Glen.” (People of Medieval Scotland, 2012a).
- Note that this document was recorded in Berwick-upon-Tweed, England. This could support a Glen of Traquair association do to geographical proximity.
- The lands of Richard of Glen, [along with others, are] due services to the king and the lords. If these do not amount to 300 marks a year, the king or his heirs will make it up to the abbey from enemies’ lands; if they surpass the amount, the balance will be paid to the Crown (People of Medieval Scotland, 2012b).
The People of Medieval Scotland places Richard Glen and his lands in the Glen of Traquair, Peeblesshire rather than Barr, Renfrewshire as Thomas Glenn does (People of Medieval Scotland, 2012c). The scholars at People of Medieval Scotland base this on the topographical surname Richard of Glen hence they attached him to the Glen of Traquair, Peeblesshire.
See maps showing location of the Glen of Traquair:
- Blaeu Atlas Maior 1662-5, Volume 6 Tvedia cum vicecomitatu Etterico Forestæ: http://maps.nls.uk/view/108520407
- Google https://goo.gl/maps/chBAbR2hovp
- People of Medieval Scotland http://db.poms.ac.uk/record/person/17491/
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| Location of the lands of Richard Glen |
Alexander Fraser in his work The Frasers of Philorth concluded that Richard of Glen was a Glen of Traquair, Peeblesshire and that he was likely related to Duncan and Sara of Glen whose lands are located at the Glen of Traquair (Fraser, 1879).
Sarah, who was the wife of Duncan of the Glen, has remained a widow for four years in 1296, she petitions for her inheritance which is seized by the hand of Earl Patrick, by reason of the war (People of Medieval Scotland, 2012d).
Therefore it seems more likely Richard of Glen is a Glen of Traquair and somehow related to Sara and Duncan of the Glen of Traquair, Peeblesshire rather then the Glens of Barr, Renfrewshire. Furthermore preliminary YDNA results suggest the Glen family of the Glen of Traquair and the Glens of Barr are unrelated.
Did Richard of Glen build Barr Castle in Renfrewshire?
Thomas Glen claims in Genealogical Notes of the family Glen or Glenn regarding Barr Castle that:
The lower walls of the castle are older than the upper works; the original sally port, now walled up, as well as the vaults, are Norman, and it was, in all probability, the home of Lord Richard, before 1292 (Glenn, 1912).
Dating the lower walls of bar castle to the late 1200s is a conclusion that is arrived at solely by Thomas Glenn. While it may be possible that some kind of structure occupied the site of Barr Castle it seems unlikely that the lower walls are Norman in origin. Professional archaeological surveys of Barr Castle date it to the early 1500s well after the time of Richard Glen c. 1250 – c. 1292 (Canmore, 2017).
Did Richard of Glen build Barr Castle in Renfrewshire?
Thomas Glen claims in Genealogical Notes of the family Glen or Glenn regarding Barr Castle that:
The lower walls of the castle are older than the upper works; the original sally port, now walled up, as well as the vaults, are Norman, and it was, in all probability, the home of Lord Richard, before 1292 (Glenn, 1912).
Dating the lower walls of bar castle to the late 1200s is a conclusion that is arrived at solely by Thomas Glenn. While it may be possible that some kind of structure occupied the site of Barr Castle it seems unlikely that the lower walls are Norman in origin. Professional archaeological surveys of Barr Castle date it to the early 1500s well after the time of Richard Glen c. 1250 – c. 1292 (Canmore, 2017).
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| Barr Castle |
Is Richard of Glen or any Glen/Glenn family related to the Norman house of Ness?
In his work Genealogical Notes of the family Glen or Glenn Thomas Glenn names Henry Ness as an ancestor to Richard of Glenn. The author of this paper has been unable to locate the records Thomas Glenn used as citations. Henry Ness is a historical person recorded in several court records (People of Medieval Scotland, 2012e) http://db.poms.ac.uk/record/source/5788/#
Conclusions Regarding Richard of Glen and this YDNA Cluster
In conclusion the author of this paper has found no historic or genetic evidence to support Richard Glen as the progenitor of the Glens of Barr. Rather it is most likely that Richard of Glen is in fact a progenitor of the Glen of Traquair, Peeblesshire.
At this time Allanus Glen is the oldest known progenitor of the Glens of Barr recorded is Allanus Glen named as an Armiger, and witness to the donation of fishing rights upon the river Clyde in the area known as Crockat-shot, to the Monks of Paisley in 1452 by Robert Lord Lyll (Crawfurd & Robertson, 1818). Therefore the Glens of Barr are their own unique lowland Scots family. Hopefully future research will perhaps yield information on earlier Glens in the Renfrew, Scotland.
Notable ancestors in the cluster
Many in the cluster are decedents of John Glen b. 1768 – d. 1832 and Abigail Rogers b. 1770- d. 1842.
Future Goals and Research
Recruiting Glen individuals living in Scotland and England that trance their families back to Renfrew, Scotland to further support or disprove conclusions about the Glens of Barr Cluster.
Canmore. (2017). Archaeology Notes Barr Castle. Retrieved April 28, 2017, from http://canmore.org.uk/event/701145
Crawfurd, G., & Robertson, G. (1818). A general description of the shire of Renfrew, including an account of the noble and ancient families ... To which is added, a genealogical history of the royal house of Stewart, and of the several noble and illustrious families of that name, from the year 1034 to the year 1710. Paisley: Printed by J. Neilson, sold by H. Crichton.
Fraser, A., (1879) The Frasers of Philorth. Retrieved May 16, 2017 from https://archive.org/stream/frasersofphilov100fras#page/36/mode/2up/search/Glen
Glenn, T. A. (1912). Genealogical Notes regarding the Family of Glen, or Glenn. The Pennsylvania Magazine of History and Biography, 36. Retrieved February 10, 2016, from https://archive.org/details/jstor-20085618.
People of Medieval Scotland (2012a). Concession of custody of lands and tenements which used to belong to Richard of Glen and the marriage of his heirs. Retrieved March 17, 2017 from http://db.poms.ac.uk/record/source/7359/
People of Medieval Scotland (2012b). Confirmation of land in Scotland worth 300 marks yearly. Retrieved March 19, 2017 http://db.poms.ac.uk/record/source/7407/#
People of Medieval Scotland (2012c). Richard of Glen of Traquair, Peeblesshire. Retrieved March 17, 2017 from http://db.poms.ac.uk/record/person/17491/
People of Medieval Scotland (2012d). Complaints and petitions of women [Sarah of Glen] whose husbands are in the king's prisons whose husbands had died in the army against the king, and of others whose husbands have committed offenses. Retrieved March 17, 2017 http://db.poms.ac.uk/record/source/7961/#
Rogers, C. (1888). Memorials of the Scottish family of Glen. Edinburgh: Privately printed. Retrieved February 10, 2016, from https://archive.org/details/memorialsofscglen00roge.
References
Canmore. (2017). Archaeology Notes Barr Castle. Retrieved April 28, 2017, from http://canmore.org.uk/event/701145
Crawfurd, G., & Robertson, G. (1818). A general description of the shire of Renfrew, including an account of the noble and ancient families ... To which is added, a genealogical history of the royal house of Stewart, and of the several noble and illustrious families of that name, from the year 1034 to the year 1710. Paisley: Printed by J. Neilson, sold by H. Crichton.
Fraser, A., (1879) The Frasers of Philorth. Retrieved May 16, 2017 from https://archive.org/stream/frasersofphilov100fras#page/36/mode/2up/search/Glen
Glenn, T. A. (1912). Genealogical Notes regarding the Family of Glen, or Glenn. The Pennsylvania Magazine of History and Biography, 36. Retrieved February 10, 2016, from https://archive.org/details/jstor-20085618.
People of Medieval Scotland (2012a). Concession of custody of lands and tenements which used to belong to Richard of Glen and the marriage of his heirs. Retrieved March 17, 2017 from http://db.poms.ac.uk/record/source/7359/
People of Medieval Scotland (2012b). Confirmation of land in Scotland worth 300 marks yearly. Retrieved March 19, 2017 http://db.poms.ac.uk/record/source/7407/#
People of Medieval Scotland (2012c). Richard of Glen of Traquair, Peeblesshire. Retrieved March 17, 2017 from http://db.poms.ac.uk/record/person/17491/
People of Medieval Scotland (2012d). Complaints and petitions of women [Sarah of Glen] whose husbands are in the king's prisons whose husbands had died in the army against the king, and of others whose husbands have committed offenses. Retrieved March 17, 2017 http://db.poms.ac.uk/record/source/7961/#
Rogers, C. (1888). Memorials of the Scottish family of Glen. Edinburgh: Privately printed. Retrieved February 10, 2016, from https://archive.org/details/memorialsofscglen00roge.
Copyright Ryan McGlenn
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